canterbury-cathedralThis week we are joined by our friend Elliot James.  Born and raised in England, Elliot talks with us about the differences in how religion is viewed in the UK vs. the United States.  He’s had some harrowing close calls due to IRA bombings and other conflicts that may, or may not have to do with religion.  We cover as much ground as possible in our short time together and then, of course, he answers our five questions!

At the very end of the episode (post theme song), we mention our listener Steve, who has been ordered to take his son to Catholic Mass.  If you’d like to sign an online petition protesting this ruling, here is the link.

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5 Responses

  1. I’ll pray for you is the absolute worst. This past Halloween while out to eat with a few friends, all of whom are religious in some way but not dicks about it, we were discussing politics and religion. We were being peaceful and overall pretty accepting of each other. The woman seated in the both behind us however overheard us talking. Now I’m not sure if it was aimed at me or the guy next to me, who had had made some political comment about humans getting the devil and god confused just like how the political parties slowly swapped, but this lady aggressively leaned over and said “I’ll pray for you.” Only it wasn’t a passive aggressive comment it was full on, ire filled, aggressive bullshit.

  2. So, I’m going to talk about the Irish section of this podcast, as I spent a good chunk of it going.. hmmmmmm that’s not quite right..

    Please bear in mind though that I grew up in The Republic and have visited Northern Ireland twice in my entire life (Belfast is lovely.. very good food, jazz and cocktails) so my understanding of the issues come through that filter.
    Setting the Scene
    The 1920’s post war of independence Ireland: Northern Ireland was a tricky problem.. It was never going to immediately become part of the Free State (what we were before the republic) because of the large Presbyterian population. There were 3 choices, All 9 counties of Ulster should be separated from the rest of Ireland (This was vetoed because there would have been too many catholics), The four predominantly protestant counties should become their own state (Down, Antrim, Derry & Armagh – DADA). Also Vetoed as the resulting state would be too small and would easily be subsumed into a larger Ireland. So they went with a compromise (ish) FAT DAD – Fermanagh, Antrim, Tyrone, Down, Armagh, Derry.

    Originally there were quotas in place to ensure proper representation in government etc for catholics. Believing that this new sate would be a temporary thing and Ireland would be whole shortly, the republicans pretty much boycotted these positions. In fairness, I’m not sure how open these quotas actually would have been.. the north was already pretty segregated.

    In the 60’s civil rights movements were growing everywhere (including northern Ireland). Catholics started to demand more rights.. loyalists took umbrage (loyalists being the loyal to the crown side).. violence ensued. The british army were sent in to quell things and were initially on the side of the catholics.. as in, they were there to protect them.. Stuff went wrong. It’s hard for soldiers to be in a warzone that’s also people’s homes. It was never acknowledged as a war zone so the squadies never got the proper mental health care (a thing that really really pisses me off).

    It started as a civil rights issue, and then escalated.

    While the provisional IRA and Sinn Fein were inextricably linked, it isn’t particularly fair to dismiss them as a result. Largely through the work of moderate members of Sinn Fein, the Provisional IRA disbanded and decommissioned their weapons (unlike a number of the loyalist paramilitary groups). This is not to defend the IRA in any way.. they were a bunch of murdering fuckheads.. not to mention the countless splinter groups who thought the provos were not quite violent enough..

    I do agree with the guest that while religion may have been the reason given, it was all about politics and power.. and at the beginning I genuinely believe, it was about making things better for their communities.

    In Northern Ireland you can get an abortion up to 9 weeks.. after that you have to travel to Britain.

    Let me not get started on Maggie Thatcher.. the woman who had afternoon tea with General Pinochet AFTER the world knew what a mass murdering fuckhead he was.

    she may have been involved in inventing softserve icecream but she was a horrible person. also her son tried to start a coup in Equatorial New Guinea

  3. Going further in the history of the Irish situation, I think Elliott didn’t go far enough in highlighting that this is an ethnic, not religious issue. According to what I’ve read, the loyalists/Protestants are almost wholly descended from Scots and English people settled there in the 1600s, and the nationalists/Catholics almost wholly from the prior native Irish population. While I’m sure there’s been some intermarriage and conversion, not that much from what I’ve heard, and in any case, that’s the background of the conflict; the country’s membership in the UK is seen as the last remnant of the rather ugly history of British imperialism in Ireland. Religion seems rather incidental, and only became relevant because it correlated so neatly with the ethnic lines.

  4. Elliott James! Awesome!
    9:30 “Sorry to talk over you.” Elliott is so polite, but sometimes it’s the only way to get a word in edgewise
    20:20 “These people have a real 17th-century mindset” – the only Americans with 17th century mindset are the native Americans!
    24:28 or so – audio glitch

  5. Sorry for the delay in replying.

    Finn. I did suggest we really should do an Irish issue, since in may ways I could comment as a Englishman and it would be a good idea to discuss to the Irish question from the point of view of a ‘republican’ and a ‘Unionist’. Since I do have some Orangemen in my family tree I can present their side of the argument.

    On the matter of Sinn Fein/IRA since at least two members of the political party – Sinn Fein – namely Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, were also on the ruling “Army Council” of the IRA (or if you prefer the Provisional Irish Republican Army). Leading to the common perception two organisations are inseparable and if one is unable to achieve its objectives it can always fall back on the other wing.

    Dave:

    I would agree 100%. In fairness I was planning to speak on “Religion in the UK” not the conflict in Ireland. The Irish situation was an interesting digression but did mean certain aspects, such as a deeper discussion of the Episcopalian (Anglican) church could not take palce.

    Albatross

    Thank you for the kind words.

    EWJ

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